The many hominids we once shared the world with are now become a younger and more numerous. The Red Deer cave people and Mongolian neanderthoids (Lishu skull) in China, the famous hobbits in Indonesia, Balangodo man in sri lanka and the Iwo alero scald from Africa all served to prove that Myths of goblins over trolls dwarves and brownies might have some actual basis in reality.
At the same time, the dawn of certain human technologies keeps getting older and older. for instance the dawn of both agriculture and the domestication of canines may have been pushed back as much as twenty thousand years from the mere 10,000 or 6,000 years that most scientists believed in in the 20th century. there are what looked to be domesticated tubers in an island in the Solomons that are twenty-eight thousand years old. the skull of a primitive dog has been found in the Altai region that dates to about thirty two thousand years before present. pottery as well as gained about 10,000 years just within the last 50 years in China and now dates to at least eighteen thousand years before present. Despite what many academiains would have you believe there are still many mysteries about our historic past that have not been fully explained by science. If your scientific theory about how we lost our fur or how we became dominant over all of the other hominids on Earth is too tin foil then you won't get your tenure in academia. You might be able to write a book and get asked to be on Ancient Aliens but the safer route is to channel your theories about these mysteries through science fiction or fantasy. Especially with fantasy I think that a lot of these artificial worlds that authors have created start from pondering our own past and the possibilities of what might have happened to bring us to where we are today. Nowhere do i find this more evident than in the works of George RR Martin.
George has been somewhat outspoken about author's writing in other authors world's such as against its fan fiction but as a prehistoric fiction writer I'm finding it very difficult not to write in George's world because George's world is essentially our own... I often find myself wanting to include little known facts about our prehistoric world in my own works of fiction only to find out that George's are used that, George's already use this, George already used this other tidbit... and so I have this fear of people thinking i'm copying George RR Martin instead of borrowing from the actual past.
There's been a lot said about A Song of Ice and Fire and it's parallel plots with the War of the Roses but i think that it has many more parallels with the time of our history that has not been preserved to us, the time before written language. The world depicted in A Song of Ice and Fire is our own world about 8,000 to 12,000 years ago, not the medieval period. The family feud between the Lannisters and Starks or Yorks and Lancasters from the War of the Rose is a type of family feud that's been happening all through the history of mankind; the Hatfields and McCoys, Romeo and Juliet, etc. Since it's repeated so much in written history it was probably happening way before we started writing history down, and so George simply uses this universal struggle that mankind has been having for probably a hundred eighty thousand years or longer, because he has no written language or written records of the prehistoric past, just cultures, bones, and artifacts and no stories. In a sense A Song of Ice and Fire is something that really could have kind of happened of about 12,000 years ago - 8000 years ago, because all of the creatures and technologies (that he actually depicts first hand by a POV character, at least) were around on this very Earth about 10,000 years ago (with the possible exception of dragons, but more on that later). The world was already built for George, he just needed a story...so why not choose one that seems to repeat itself every generation that man is on this Earth?
I know this sounds pretty out there, but in recent years I've heard several pseudo-scientists or investigative journalist coining the term "man is a species with amnesia." In other words we've forgotten a lot about our prehistoric past. Indeed, according to many mainstream scientists, such as Dr. Stephen Oppenheimer, much of our past has been erased. Any writing or records of what might have gone on before our earliest preserved written document have largely been destroyed because our coasts have been destroyed, and that's where the biggest part of our civilizations probably would have been before the end of the last ice age.
The fact that fifty percent of Americans are willing to entertain the notion that aliens might have had something to do with our origins as a species is telling- 20th century scientists did a woefully poor job of selling evolution to the public as it is written in the textbooks. And while i would like to fill in some of the gaps in our timeline in other videos, this series of videos is primarily about George RR Martin and prehistoric literary criticism and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire. My own ideas about human origins don't involve ancient aliens, but George RR Martin's very well could. It makes no difference- we're not here to analyzing the facts behind human evolution or how it came to be, what we're analyzing are the works and the world view on evolution that is depicted in A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones.
My ideas about human origins don't involve ancient aliens but George RR Martin's very well good. Alternatively, it's possible George is donning the Alien Theory hat on this particular of fiction, and that's one of the things we're here to find out.
It makes no difference whether the theory is valid in the eyes of academia here: we're not analyzing the facts of human evolution per se or how it came to be... what we're analyzing are the world views on evolutionand prehistory that the world of Ice and Fire itself presents, rather than its author.
Does a Song of Ice and Fire and Game Thrones have a purely biological academic view of evolution? if it is a straight view of evolution, then does it present more of an Out of Africa idea or the multi-regionalist idea? Going back farther, does it believe in the Savannah ape possibility or is it more leaning towards the aquatic ape theory (AAT) which is a little bit less accepted? If A Song of Ice and Fire doesn't have a viewpoint that is straight evolution without any help from any outside source, then does it lean more towards the Creationist point of view? And when I say creationist viewpoint that can also be Hindu or Islamic or Zoroastrian or anything else.... or does the body of work have a more Ancient Aliens view point to it? And what is it saying or attempting to say about the part of our past that is closed off to us or which has been erased by Oppenheimer's floods? What I have found over the past few weeks researching this is that looking at George RR Martin's works from this standpoint gives me a unique perspective and trying to figure out what might be to come or in order to help explain the world of Ice and Fire and what's going on what is the big picture behind all these different factions that are coming together between the Lord of Light and the Lord death or the Great Other so we'll start with the earliest memories that any peoples in Planet owes seem to have recorded from the earliest era that anyone has any records essentially the prehistoric period of Martin's world the following is a tor . com article from 2015 (Chris Lough)
"...according to the world of Ice and Fire, the maesters of Westeros think that mankind only emerged 40,000 - 500 thousand years ago which is more than a million years younger than humans on Earth. The origins of humans on earth can be traced to the grass plains of northern Central Africa and it is expected that origins of human in westeros can be traced to a similar environment in the Dothraki sea. The first signs of human settlement are along the rivers in the western portion of the north Iraqi sea and cave painting have been found west of that, south of the free city of Norvos."
First I would like to point out that in one respect, Georgia Martin has his facts much more accurate than Chris Lough. I’m not sure what species of mankind Chris Lough thinks began about a million or a million and half years ago, but current thought among scientist is that bipedal apes began sometime between 6 million and 10 millon years ago. The genus homo began sometime between 1.8 million and 2.3million years ago, and Homo sapiens sapiens (which is us) didn’t begin untilsometime between 120,000 and 200,000 years ago. Up until the mid-20th century, most scientists believed that Homo Sapiens Sapiens didn’t begin until around 40,000 years ago. They had a very Euro-centric idea of evolution and many scientists refused to believe that Cro-magnons weren't the first Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Cro-magnons only evolved about 40,000 years ago in Europe, and so our scientists had the same evidence as the those in Westros seem to have had up until relatively recent times- cave paintings and other evidences of settlement along rivers. It’s only because of advancements in genetics that we know now that Homo Sapiens can trace their maternal lineage to 180,000 years ago, And we alsonow have fossils dating back to 160,000 years old. So the Maesters are right- they are more closer to the correct date than Chris Lough is. There are also some people who think Homo Sapien Sapien is a lot older, with evidence of an anatomical modern humans coming from Mungo Man who split of 350,000 years ago rather than 180 thousand. There are certain Y haplogroups in Africa that are 400,000 years old. 500,000years at about the dawn of heidelbergensis.... and it seems that both the neanderthal man and Homo Sapien Sapien splits off from heidelbergensis. So if you include the heidelbergensis and neanderthal in the group known as "Human," then George Martin is more accurate in that respect as well; humans came to be about 500,000 years ago.
The point is, here you see the Maesters following our own progression of knowledge. At one time we thought that Homo Sapien Sapien evolved somewhere in Asia or Europe, mostly because of cave paintings and because of primitive bones. Later we learned that they first evolved in Africa... and most likely one day Martin's Maesters in the future will come to these conclusions as well... if they survive this age. In the song of Ice and fire, Africa is Sothoryos, and as we see by studying the histories of some of the earliest civilizations in planetos. Mankind seems to have come up from Sothoryos around the Jade sea (which is basically the Mediterranean) and into Europe from that area' Ashai and the Shadow, the Soth Eastern lands of mystery, Sothoryos... these are all places that we don’t know anything about but they seems to be the places from where Homo Sapien sapien might have come.
Chris goes on to say others species on planet Westros are considered to be older than mankind. like the giants, the children of the forest, and quite possibly the Others. He is leaving out quite a few, but this is the same thing as in our own planet, there are homonids that are much older than mankind- homo erectos, and several others. In the wiki of ice and fire, which is derived from the world of ice and fire, they don’t talk about the first inhabitant of Essos, but they do talk about the first inhabitant of Westeros. It states; In the dawn age, Westeros is inhabited by the children of the Forest and possibly by giants in the far North. Some others semi-canonical sources say that the Others were there too; they are the White Walkers if you are watching the shows. That seems to have been contradicted by the idea that the white walkers were created by the children of the forest in order to protect them against men, and so they wouldn’t have come until the arrival of men, but this isn’t necessarily the case; we will talk about that in just a little bit. Whether the Others - white walkers- were there or not, we know that the children of the Forest and the giants weren’t the only species in westros when the first man arrived... and for several different reasons. On the sub redded," a song of ice and fire," a user named masogynistlesbian has this to say; many time throughout the words of ice and fire, there mentions of a certain blac stone, other structures built of this black stone are similar to valerian architecture, having quality of being fused smoothly together as from dragon flame. It’s set apart by having an oily or greasy feel to it and being unadorned rather twisted into some fancy shape, like the [valerians] often do. Additionally, all have agents and unknown origins. To recap, these agents are
1. the sea stone chair, the throne king of the iron island caved with oily black stones into the shape of a crakan, found on old [Wik where the Ironmen currently reside.
2. The foundation of the hightower on the mysteriously named battle isle, a square leviathan fortress infused on a dorm black stone sixth beneath the more recently built high tower.
3. The toad stone on the isle of toads - In an isle near sothoryos seats a forty foot tall ancient idol of a toad crudely carved with grisly black stone. Inhabitant of this isle have an unpleasant fish like appearance through their faces and many have webbed hands and feet. The idol is built entirely of huge oily black stones blocks in which some of the numerous ruinous people vanished over night during their exodus and the jungle does not row near. Aside, the buildings were assigned by shadows or said to consist of black stones with their grisly unpleasant feel. It’s claimed the stone drinks life, making their night pitch black and even the sunniest day quite gloomy. The city is also toxic, the plant, animals and children. Although nobody knows why, maybe related to, may not be, but I find that really similar to other far lands. The five ports on the eastern edge of the known world between planes of the Geros slide and the great waste in just south of the bleeding sea seats five ports whose walls of huge black stones of almost a thousand foot high. Remember the walls are supposed to be 750 feet tall and is huge, paper date the rise of the valerian field as well as the golden empire of yatee. Possible the black stone which fell from the sky in yatee shortly before the long night and was worshipped by the blood stone emperor. All that seems like more of an intentional parallel to the sword downs origin in star fall and other medorites falling stories from the series in in my eyes more on this later. Let’s begin with mentions of theory about this mysterious black stones from Master Aaron in his manuscript Strange Stone. Aaron drew the connection between the black stone of the six stone chair and that of the ancient fortress that serves as foundation of the high tower. He suggested that they were created by the deep ones and were a mis happens race of half beings reside by creatures of the salt seas upon human women. He also suggested that they inspired the legends of Merlings and that the sea creatures who fathered them inspired the religion of the drawn god. Additionally, the legends of the Lorads claim that they were rathy maze makers were destroyed by creatures from the sea whereas the inhabitant of the thousand isles sacrificed sailors to [sqaumosh] fish and their gods of which stones idols emerge which the titans loved. These folks are also hairless with green thin skins. Filing the teeth’s of their women in a point and cutting off the fore skin of their males. Strangely, it’s said that they greatly feared the sea and would not go into it even under the threat of death. Another fish people legends is that squishes on the crackup wall plane westros within the same vicinity is [ drift mark ]ruled by house valrion from the drift hood throne which leesle claim has given to them by the merlin king to conclude a path. They veil contains a few merling legends wrote by Rocce, repeatedly earned the legends of asurlar eclipse, a sorcerous who called herself the bride of the merling king. So they counted Merlin as friends and those of house morel or speedster still tend to have web appendages. Don’t forget patched faces miraculous surviving of the 3 days in the sea and subsequent pathetic ability and frequent referencing of drown god myths after he washed up. It’s possible, I say probably that this stories and beliefs are related their own [ ].
This editor goes on to compare Martin deep ones to HP Lovecraft's, which I think is spot on, but Lovecraft's deep ones appear in a lot more stories than shadow over [heads] now. she also points out that the oily black stones has a lot of similarities to Robert E. Howard's black stones in the story – the black stone. But these are not just references or not, these are expansions on the idea that Howard and Lovecraft actually corresponded over. Martin’s deep ones are almost exactly Lovecraft's deep ones. Both mentioned also the old ones which are another ancient race of cynthic beings who keeps these powers of the deep ones in check in some way. There seems to be no disharmony difference at all between Martins deep ones and old ones and Hp Lovecraft Deep ones and Old ones, he just tells us a little more about it. Maybe he even updates them with modern understanding of human evolution if you will. The idea of these deep ones also seems to serve the same kind of purpose as the song of ice and fire as they did HP love [ ] work. There is this ancient civilization that predates mankind, that has almost unknowable connections to the origin of mankind, and knowing those origins can drive a man insane. Several of Lovecraft's characters, go insane after finding the evidence that the old one is real. And we also see this one happening a song of ice and fire, especially with patch face, possibly with dampened hair as well as the great king of the iron island and the storms king of storms in.
Question
I have been thinking about recently, and I guess that there are some mysteries lying under the oceans in the sea around westros?
We can suppose that Lorath was also attack by Deep Ones or something else near the shivering sea at the end of the dance. Patch face was resurrected after been drowned in mad sea. I guess there is more than meets the eyes in the drown god legend. Too much resurrection too.
A world of ice and fire describes the crannogmen thusly- Some might say the least of the people of the north of the swamp dwellers of the north known as cranik man for the floating island on which they raise their homes and [ ]. A small slight people, some say they are small in stature because of their inner marriage with the children of before us. But more likely a result from inadequate nourishment, their brains did not flourish amidst the thins and swamps mashes of the [ ] and the crannogmen survive largely upon a diet of fish, frogs and lizards. They are quite secretive, prefers to keep to themselves. South of the the swamp in the the riverlands …..the small folk say that the cranik man breath water, have webbed hand and feet like frogs and use poison on their frog spears and their arrows.
Meera Ree,s in one of the books, informed us that Howland reed could breathe mud. There are names for this deep ones or their offspring or otherwise all over planetos, they are called merlins mermaids merman selkis squishers and other names for these fish people. Those who seem to worship them in the Far East bow down their teeth to sharpness. The small poke of westros say that the fish people looks normally enough if you get close to them and behind their mouth they have these rows of sharp pointed teeth. The culture from the East of essence worships this fish people, bow their teeth down to sharpness, at least the women do. Biter, who is a prisoner with Jaqen and Rorge during the 1st, 2nd and 3rd books has teeth that are filed to sharpness and he also has slits all over his body that could be a primitive homage to gills and there even theories that theirs is one of the fish people. They say they were small but he doesn’t open his mouth and show his teethes probably because his teethes are pointed and they have other little eastern eggs that point to Varys and Tyrion being fish people. There is even a theory that benjen is a fish person and that all of them are ruled by Little Figure whose house has an indications of some kind of merlin ancestry. While I may not buy in to all of that, it’s evident that George has put enough web fingers in all oily stones and references to merlings and deep ones that is going to be somewhat important to the story. I think it’s going to be a major part of the story and a big review plot west, but at the same time I don’t think we will ever know everything about origins of the deep ones. We may only go as far as the merlings and the squishers. Because George is using the deep one mystery for a horror element in his story just like HP love crab did before him. However, there is a lot we can learn from it, and we can use it to get what’s going to happen in the story and use it to see what a song of ice and fire’s interpretation of our own human pre history is.
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